Instapage's Marketing Stack (Segment, Autopilot, Heap & MadKudu)



Stefano Mazzalai

Stefano Mazzalai
Head of Marketing Operations at Instapage


Instapage is a landing page platform that helps marketing teams and agencies own their post-click experience and maximize your conversion rate.

For this session, Stefano Mazzalai Head of Marketing Ops at Instapage shares with CEO of ABM platform ListenLoop Rodrigo Fuentes how his team uses:

Transcript

Rodrigo Fuentes: Hello everyone this is Rodrigo Fuentes, the co-founder of ListenLoop, and we're back with more. Today I'm talking with Stefano Mazzalai, head of marketing at Instapage. How are you doing Stefano?

Stefano Rodrigo Fuentes: Hello everyone this is Rodrigo Fuentes, the co-founder of ListenLoop, and we're back with more Ops.tv. Today I'm talking with Stefano Mazzalai, head of marketing at Instapage. How are you doing Stefano?

Stefano Mazzalai: Good, hi Rodrigo. Thanks for having me.

Rodrigo Fuentes: Alright, so pleasure to talk with you. I know we're going to cover a lot of awesome analytics tools like Heap, Segment. We're gonna cover some marketing automation tools, Autopilot, and of course Instapage as well. So to get some context going, how would you describe your ideal customer for Instapage?

Stefano Mazzalai: Sure, yeah. So basically we work with a lot of tower advertisers. We tend to look for more than 10k per month. These people tend to use advertising for acquisition and direct response contains, versus branding. And largely using and/or like Facebook and other kind of sophisticated ad technologies, we basically acquire the customers. So this is kind of the first micro group that we market to, as well like the main chain growth and large marketing teams as well. And of course we target to any other marketer. That is our customer.

Rodrigo Fuentes: Yeah that makes sense. So tell me, do you have more of an inbound or outbound model for acquiring customers today?

Stefano Mazzalai: Yeah, so historically we are a bootstrapped company. We started off with a purely inbound model and over time we added outbound. Our outbound team is relatively new. We started off around six months ago, and we've been growing from there.

Rodrigo Fuentes: And when you do your outbound sales, prospecting with that team, is it primarily focused on email outreach? Do you mix in phone calls? Tell us a little bit more about some of the overview of how you approach that.

Stefano Mazzalai: Yeah so it's a mix approach. We use a lot of emails. We use phone calls. We basically try to coordinate as much as possible between marketing and sales. We do some coordinated ABM campaigns sometimes, depending on the industry and on the vertical. We've seen some good results from those but it's something we're working actively, this year, to expand. Yeah we're using some different methods and channels.

Rodrigo Fuentes: Excellent and I know you're probably just yanking my chain there, throwing out the ABM keyword, but I appreciate that. We can dive more into that in a little bit. Before we go there, metrics. Measuring the success of any campaign is by far probably the most challenging task facing any marketer today. So how do you do it and what metrics are you using to track your results?

Stefano Mazzalai: Yeah so I mean we use a variety tools within company, so we've been trying to standardize as much as possible data tracking and collection. So one of these tools that we use is Segment, which allows us to basically collect and report on a variety of data from multiple sources. So with the idea of like building like a holistic comprehensive view of the customer across his lifecycle. So it's always a challenge obviously because this involves multiple departments from engineering to sales, making sure that everything is consistent but it's something that we spend ... we always focus most of our efforts making sure that we track correctly, every single step of the life cycle itself. So we have a few attribution models that we have built in-house, using for example [peepsequel 00:03:55] which is one of our sequel parts used by our business intelligence team and analysts. We are trying to democratize it as well, making it more accessible within the whole marketing and pRodrigoucts as well.

Rodrigo Fuentes: Yeah, and tell me a little bit more about how you split up or organize yourselves in marketing teams. I think more and more lately I'm hearing that the sales development rep, or BDR, is reporting directly into marketing as more of a demand-gen role. How are you guys thinking about that?

Stefano Mazzalai: So we have a ... our marketing team is quite large for the size of the company. We are like 30 people total out of 120. We try to have a really tight integration with sales, so any kind of ... we obviously have a lead-generation team, which basically is highly integrated with sales. They try to coordinate solely outbound efforts with the ... on both sides, both marketing and sales. There's no direct reporting on our end, but it's definitely ... we strive for maximum integration of the sale.

Rodrigo Fuentes: You know one of the anecdotes that I keep hearing in the industry is this idea of an actual SLA, service level agreement, between marketing and sales. It's not really full of legalese, per se, but it does have some written bullet points that the sales point will sign. The marketing team will sign typically at the head or VP level. Have you seen anything like that and do you have something that substitutes or provides that kind of level of agreement or alignment between the two departments?

Stefano Mazzalai: Yeah I mean that's a good question. I think we're not at that stage yet in a sense at Instapage itself, because we are relatively small in the ... especially from our sales perspective outbound. But it's something that we are ... so there's a lot of corporation from the bottom up I would say. So everyone is really responsible for the role and trying to contribute to every role but it's something that we might need over time as we expand. It's something ... more structure that we're tying to build. The idea overall makes a lot of sense to me. It's something that needs to be coordinated in both departments.

Rodrigo Fuentes: Okay, cool. Well let's do a quick lightening round before we jump into your must-have tools. Real quick, tell me how many accounts do you assign to each account rep?

Stefano Mazzalai: Sure yeah, so we split our accounts and leads in general by geography not by company size. So we try to strive for an even distribution among different reps but obviously there's always something going on. We get a lot of leads every day. About 10% of those gets formed, getting to our sales team, our sales pipeline. So we try to harmonize those between different sales reps.

Rodrigo Fuentes: And between pipeline revenue, tracking versus marketing-qualified lead tracking, what do you prefer?

Stefano Mazzalai: Well definitely pipeline revenue is most important for us. MQLs obviously depends on the number of sales-accepted leads that we have so on the overall sales team composition ... so yeah we mainly track revenue as our primary goal.

Rodrigo Fuentes: And are you using closed loop attribution to do that today?

Stefano Mazzalai: Yeah so we set up tracking for all the different stages between Autopilot and Salesforce. Basically we are able to tell exactly where each lead is coming from, from the first point where they enter, if it was an inbound lead, they touch our website and how they got transferred to basically sales.

Rodrigo Fuentes: Excellent. So I know we got a lot of tools that we've been talking about here in our conversation so far. We've mentioned Heap, Salesforce, Autopilot, Segment, so why don't we dive into some of these. Can you give me a breakdown? What would you say are your must-have tools in your technology stack of the ones we've been talking about so far?

Stefano Mazzalai: Definitely, I mean we are really fans here of Segment and Google Tag Manager, which they combined together to basically [fire-tracking 00:08:28] all our pages and data sources. As well as we are big fans of Autopilot for marketing automation. And as well, Heap for analytics. I'll dive into these tools momentarily.

Rodrigo Fuentes: Alright, let's go with the first tool, what are you going to show us first?

Stefano Mazzalai: So Segment is basically our main data hub that we use here at Instapage and basically tells us how to track data from a variety of sources including our app and website of course. And then send it to a bunch of destinations, which is basically ... one we have in terms of where we analyze the data, where some of ... any tool, any external tool we use for a specific purpose. Some of these destinations can also send the data back to Segment so it's kind of a two-way integration. The cool thing about this is basically it allows us to try out a lot of different tools without much effort. The code that we have to install is already the same. Basically fire up a lot of this tracking really fast. We usually inject via Google Tag Manager. For example, to give you an example, on the front end for a page like this, which is one of our landing pages, we can just fire Tag Manager on this, basically we can easily see ... basically we can add the code on the front end that we can get Tag Manager and basically have data on the ... tracking data on Segment.

Rodrigo Fuentes: Just so I can recap and make sure I understand what you are saying here. Basically you are using Segment as this bridge between a lot of different sources there on the left and I can see you kind of hover over a job description there. And then you use that to identify the destinations, where do you want to send the data that's being collected by JavaScript. For example here, you are sending it over to a Redshift database. You are sending it to Heap and various other tools that you're using. You mentioned that you can fire up a tool real quickly, and what I understand that to mean is that these tools connect to Segment and they're basically turn-key integrations that you "flip a switch," and you start sending them data right away without having to ask you engineers to add JavaScript tags, or elements and events. Did I understand you correctly?

Stefano Mazzalai: That is correct. I mean at least on the front end side we don't need any kind of engineering development work. On the back end, obviously we need to define some of these events, such as firing from our database. So in that sense, we some engineering work. In this sense it's also important to define which of these events make the most sense for your business. So define the tracking plan ahead of time. Segment has some great resources, basically where you can find pre-made tracking plans which allow suggestions from the team. But obviously depending on your business model, you have to define what business metrics are most important to you and work with your team to get them implemented. This typically takes at least a couple of months of implementation time to get it right or just to integrate. Just to make sure you collect everything.

Rodrigo Fuentes: Great, and I understand Segment is great for collecting the data and sending it to a destination. Does it do something else in terms of helping you visualize the information or is there something else beyond what we are seeing on this page here?

Stefano Mazzalai: So the cool thing about Segment is, about one and a half years ago, they intRodrigouced this concept of Segment Sources. Basically on top of your own application or website, they allow you to get data from a variety of third party sources that you are using. For example, if you are using Google AdWords, you can push a lot of their data to any destination of your choice. Most likely it's going to be a data warehouse. Internally we use [Ratchet and Cosgress 00:12:48] where we basically collect the data and we are able to then slice and dice how we want to. And basically create dashboards and visualization on top of that using a tool like [inaudible 00:13:00]. That's a pretty cool feature that allows you to basically like turn on a lot of ... collect a lot of data without necessarily having to go through the Segment tracking.

Rodrigo Fuentes: Tell me what would you do if Segment did not exist? How much would your world suck?

Stefano Mazzalai: That would be ... when it came out it was a great relief for everyone. In that sense, we would have a lot of data available right away without having to wait for engineering. For us, it was pretty amazing.

Rodrigo Fuentes: So just to interpret that for some people that might be watching, you're maybe stuck and trying to implement a project. You want to get engineering's attention on something and it's languishing. I think what I'm learning from Stefano here is that Segment can help you get live and actually implement some of the projects that you have on your plate. Is that about right Stefano?

Stefano Mazzalai: Correct. Yeah, yeah. It basically allows you to get data from third party applications that they're already tracking from different sources and basically get it immediately available for visualization and data analysis, yes.

Rodrigo Fuentes: Awesome, well let's go to the next tool. I think you had mentioned a few others. What else do you want to show us today?

Stefano Mazzalai: Totally. Yeah so, Autopilot is a ... we're a big fan of Autopilot itself. It's our main marketing automation tool. And the cool part bout that is we can ingest data from Segment so we can basically segment people by using behavioral scores. So like any kind of action they did on our website or on the app is a tracking segment. And also pretty seamless integration with Salesforce, which basically allows us to score and sync all our leads and contacts for the sales team. So in terms of UI, it's I think compared to other systems, it's a more modern system compared to others in this space. We have a unified dashboard. One of the main appealing points is the visual engine that stands behind building journey and campaign. So every campaign is organized as a journey basically, and you can spin off when you're then depending on your needs. For example, for our onboarding ... free trial onboarding experience for inbound leads, we can easily define multi-channel marketing for them. Basically cross emails in applications. Even SMS or direct mail.
Plain built channels by basically dragging and dropping shapes into this board. It's a pretty interesting concept and it's more of a ... basically helps you visualize your customer journey directly without using a lot of drop-down menus. They can sometimes be overwhelming.

Rodrigo Fuentes: I'm seeing what looks like possibly a hundred little tiles on the little map on the bottom right. I'm curious, you're a power user, you got some very sophisticated campaigns in here. For the person who is maybe mid-level or just starting out, what would you say is the killer ability of creating a journey like this?

Stefano Mazzalai: Yeah, I mean it's definitely ... the simplicity of use comes to mind. It doesn't like ... being able to spin off the tool itself, we fire this through Google Tag Manager as well. You just need to ... and if you already have a Segment implementation in place, even better. It doesn't have to be. It's very easy to set up. It basically allows everyone to set up an initial drip campaign or marketing flow very quickly and easily. And also in terms of if you need to set up an email, Autopilot provides a series of templates, which are already embedded in the email itself. So it's a pretty cool option overall.

Rodrigo Fuentes: By the way, I keep seeing these different blocks that obviously mean different things. You've got some pink ones that say, "Headsup Messaging." So I'm very curious how do you leverage those and what are they?

Stefano Mazzalai: Headsup is another cool component that Autopilot does. It basically is an in-app message that you can customize. An in-app or website message that you can customize as you will. And the advantage is it has a pretty solid response rate compare to emails for example. If you carriage people via this channel, I think it is definitely going to provide a better UI. The cool thing is you can coordinate between email and Headsup messages very quickly and easily. And customize them based on any kind of behavior that your customers are doing in the app. For example, we define ahead of time our activations steps for doing our onboarding. So in our case here, we are just reaching out to some of our customers, or in this case, Evan created a page. Hasn't done anything since signing up. And so basically help him then with the tutorials and case studies in this case. Basically learn how to start off, create a case and basically using our tools in the most efficient way.

Rodrigo Fuentes: Yeah I see that little preview there. I'm curious, people these days are using a kind of best of breed type approach to the tools they use. So I've seen other people implement Drift, Intercom, etc. for that bottom right messaging. How do you deal with multiple tools trying to occupy that same mind space on a webpage. Are you using any of those other tools? Are you using Headsup only? How do you manage that potential conflict?

Stefano Mazzalai: Yeah so, we do have UX research team that deals a lot with some of these issues as well. So basically we work with them to make sure our marketing teams and all the different tools are harmonized and we're not basically [spending 00:19:16] people in any ways, because our goal is to be helpful. And basically be able to provide quality content to people who want to use our tools for the business. There are a lot of point of views that we have to kind of include in our analysis, so some of the real time chats are useful depending on your support availability bandwidth. I've seen some of the bots that are coming out lately. They are very promising as well. We are also looking to use some of those more for sales qualification point of view, but for when it's about to use tutorials. Basically, try to help people to learn the pRodrigouct from the one on one, these tools have been proven pretty valuable.

Rodrigo Fuentes: Well I'm actually a very happy Autopilot customer, so I can nerd-out for hours with you I think on the journey building and whatnot, but one area I'm curious about in particular for someone who has such a sophisticated journey down there, are you using their SMS features and lob integration to send direct mail to customers?

Stefano Mazzalai: Yeah that's a good question. We use their SMS feature a few times, especially for some events we organize or high-importance touch points I would say. Obviously it's a feature that we cannot abuse. First you need to have the data. Secondly, it's something that needs to be really urgent. So we're being really conservative in our approach. So [Farba 00:21:28] we're planning to use more for sure. And also direct mail, this is something we use for some of our high value customers like some ... an extra touch point we use as part of a campaign. That was pretty cool. It allows you to reach out to them very easily within the app. So it was-

Rodrigo Fuentes: So a similar question about Segment, if I had to take Autopilot away from you, what would you do? What would you be using?

Stefano Mazzalai: Yeah, it's a good question. So I mean it's hard depending on where your company's ... it really depends on where you are at in terms of the company and what stage of growth you are basically. Some of the tools are more focused on SMBs, others are more like Enterprise. It's hard to obviously ... there are some tools which are very focused on Enterprise and [Merkt 00:22:27] or [OpsFont 00:22:29]. Eloqua or like [OpsFont 00:22:32] Enterprise. SO some of them might be more suitable for certain types of customers. I think Autopilot right now is able to position itself in between. It can do things as complex as [Merket 00:22:45] or Eloqua, and at the same time be still easy to use for your SMBs or less-enterprise type of customers. But it depends where you're at in your business model.

Rodrigo Fuentes: Tell me about ... no software is perfect. Every software has trade-offs, pros and cons. What would you say is a weakness of Autopilot's offering today?

Stefano Mazzalai: Okay, so in terms of weaknesses I think Autopilot ... their email editor could be improved. In a sense, it's great to start off and import your HTML's. But to make it more scalable, maybe adding more variations of the same email quickly. That could possibly be improved, but recently, they released a new editor as well, which seems very promising. So they seem to making steps, so ...

Rodrigo Fuentes: Excellent. Well, why don't we move on to another tool you are using. What other goodies do you have in your bag?

Stefano Mazzalai: Totally, yeah. So I mean when it comes to analyze some of your campaign results from Autopilot or a variety of sources, one of ... if you are only using Autopilot, there is a tool called Insight, which allows you to basically go in-depth into each one of your campaigns and see metrics like open rate. And as well like how some of these people convert into ... it's taking a bit to load, but basically how well they are basically moving on to the next stage of the final. One another very example possibility is to export that data into an analytics tool, like Heap for example. So Autopilot and Heap have a direct integration and basically send a fire hose of data from Autopilot to Heap and then slice and dice it from there. So here we have built a series of dashboards that allows you to basically monitor the status of each campaign, In as well as combine this data, not only with Segment data, but data from other sources. For example a Stripe or a MailChimp or even AdWords, which is coming up in the next couple weeks. So it's pretty exciting. We can basically see for each of the emails we send, which one is being opened most or clicked. And so forth

Rodrigo Fuentes: So let's just do a quick scenario. Let's say I'm the CEO of Instapage and you're presenting to me your quarterly results, what are you showing me on this page? There's a lot of beautiful colors, but what should I focus on? How are you gonna show me that you are kicking butt?

Stefano Mazzalai: Yeah so basically for each campaign, we create a specific dashboard in Heap and basically where we can see how many ... well we mainly use emails or in-app messages. How many of these were sent by the persona? How many were opened or clicked, depending on the channel? And how many of these segments ... maybe people who opened them, or clicked, how many of these then subscribed or retained. It's a useful tool to show your CEO or your VP of marketing how your campaigns are performing. And just basically being able to combine these as well with other data so you can be like a multi-touch distribution model to show exactly how each campaign was contributing to them.

Rodrigo Fuentes: Excellent. Is there any more you'd like to show us here inside of Heap? Earlier you talked about Heap Sequel, what else can you show us inside of Heap?

Stefano Mazzalai: Yeah so Heap Sequel, it comes along as part of the Heap package. It's basically a way to send all the events and properties that we have defined in Heap to our warehouse. The cool thing about that, so it allows you to cut down on some of the engineering work. So you don't have to tell your engineers you have to create this event, or you have to create this user property on the front end. So basically, we have our pRodrigouct managers and markets go into the UI directly here and basically create a new event from scratch by just for example defining a CSS selector on a page or app. Basically you just need little bit of html ability to read those languages and then you are fine. It's very easy to set up any sort of new event tracking without involving engineering.

Rodrigo Fuentes: Have you tried other solutions besides Heap to solve similar problems for you?

Stefano Mazzalai: Yeah we used to have different analytics tools. We used to have Mixpanel in the past and now we also have an auto tracking feature too. But for us the implementation with Segment was a bit more difficult. I think they use some special alias along with segment. Which was kind of like ... Yeah basically we were using Mixpanel before. It was a great tool. It still is. The only problem is it wasn't ... the integration with our Segment implementation wasn't great. We were using some alias events, which needed to be added each time, making things more complicated. Overall, Heap was just easier to plug in.

Rodrigo Fuentes: Excellent. Well what other tools do you have in store for us today?

Stefano Mazzalai: Totally, so yeah one cool thing that we use as well is MadKudu, which is like a lead scoring predictive tool that we use to basically qualify leads in Autopilot and send to Salesforce. So the cool thing is for every lead that we send to Salesforce, our sales team basically can see enriched data from there. See how well ... like a lead score and how well they fit in terms of graphics and behavior. So they got all this pipeline of like very enriched data within Salesforce itself. It's very useful for them to get a sense of how likely is someone to become a customer. We tried a few lead scoring solutions before. We started off from scratch doing our own lead scoring based on behavior and graphics. But MadKudu showed us some real valuable just also by kind of operationalizing all the data just from Segment. Being able to return some ... send back some data to Segment and Salesforce.

Rodrigo Fuentes: Are you using that information to triage the incoming leads that you're getting. Earlier you were talking about a thousand leads a day, I think. Is that a primary value of something like MadKudu?

Stefano Mazzalai: Yeah, so that plays a huge part in our lead routing. Yes. But at the same time we collected from different sources. It could be from our website, it could be from our app. They also have some very interesting tools to collect information from forms that are active. An example, one of our landing pages here, we can basically show a specific message. A leads score out in real time. For example, if someone inputs a specific high value email, then basically we are able to show them a specific message that they want to see and enterprise for an example. Let me try an example here. We can show this solution only if this email has been ... has basically scored out in our scoring algorithm.

Rodrigo Fuentes: And what are you using to actually display that message above the button Get E-Book. Is that MadKudu tech or are you dynamically injecting that text with JavaScript that calls MadKudu's score?

Stefano Mazzalai: That is dynamic. JavaScript that's calling the MadKudu's scores. So you need to install some JavaScript from MadKudu in the page to begin with, and then yeah, it returns this information. And you can manage all of this within MadKudu itself. They have a UI where you can basically set up these forms.

Rodrigo Fuentes: Aside from the sort of cool factor, what value have you seen from optionally offering an enterprise solution, yes-no radio button here?

Stefano Mazzalai: You can basically guard some of the intent of this enterprise, potential customer. We have seen much higher conversion rates for people who have expressed intent when downloading an asset like an e-book or just on sign-up itself. So that has been very valuable to us in general. It's something that has proven to make our sales team pretty happy.

Rodrigo Fuentes: Excellent Stefano, thank you so much for your time today. It's been a pleasure reviewing all these pRodrigoucts with you. Just a brief recap, we covered, Segment, Autopilot, Heap and MadKudu, and all the different ways in which you are leveraging these tools to drive more marketing efficiency and better sales results. I love to see ... do you have any parting thoughts for us today?

Stefano Mazzalai: No, thanks for Rodrigorigo for having me and congratulations for the channel. I think it's very valuable for any Ops professional to just come here and learn about best practices from each other and it's a great tool. We're very thankful. Thanks again.
: Good, hi Rodrigorigo. Thanks for having me.

Rodrigo Fuentes: Alright, so pleasure to talk with you. I know we're going to cover a lot of awesome analytics tools like Heap, Segment. We're gonna cover some marketing automation tools, Autopilot, and of course Instapage as well. So to get some context going, how would you describe your ideal customer for Instapage?

Stefano Mazzalai: Sure, yeah. So basically we work with a lot of tower advertisers. We tend to look for more than 10k per month. These people tend to use advertising for acquisition and direct response contains, versus branding. And largely using [layodwords 00:00:59] and/or like Facebook and other kind of sophisticated ad technologies, we basically acquire the customers. So this is kind of the first micro group that we market to, as well like the main chain growth and large marketing teams as well. And of course we target to any other marketer. That is our customer.

Rodrigo Fuentes: Yeah that makes sense. So tell me, do you have more of an inbound or outbound model for acquiring customers today?

Stefano Mazzalai: Yeah, so historically we are a bootstrapped company. We started off with a purely inbound model and over time we added outbound. Our outbound team is relatively new. We started off around six months ago, and we've been growing from there.

Rodrigo Fuentes: And when you do your outbound sales, prospecting with that team, is it primarily focused on email outreach? Do you mix in phone calls? Tell us a little bit more about some of the overview of how you approach that.

Stefano Mazzalai: Yeah so it's a mix approach. We use a lot of emails. We use phone calls. We basically try to coordinate as much as possible between marketing and sales. We do some coordinated ABM campaigns sometimes, depending on the industry and on the vertical. We've seen some good results from those but it's something we're working actively, this year, to expand. Yeah we're using some different methods and channels.

Rodrigo Fuentes: Excellent and I know you're probably just yanking my chain there, throwing out the ABM keyword, but I appreciate that. We can dive more into that in a little bit. Before we go there, metrics. Measuring the success of any campaign is by far probably the most challenging task facing any marketer today. So how do you do it and what metrics are you using to track your results?

Stefano Mazzalai: Yeah so I mean we use a variety tools within company, so we've been trying to standardize as much as possible data tracking and collection. So one of these tools that we use is Segment, which allows us to basically collect and report on a variety of data from multiple sources. So with the idea of like building like a holistic comprehensive view of the customer across his lifecycle. So it's always a challenge obviously because this involves multiple departments from engineering to sales, making sure that everything is consistent but it's something that we spend ... we always focus most of our efforts making sure that we track correctly, every single step of the life cycle itself. So we have a few attribution models that we have built in-house, using for example [peepsequel 00:03:55] which is one of our sequel parts used by our business intelligence team and analysts. We are trying to democratize it as well, making it more accessible within the whole marketing and pRodrigoucts as well.

Rodrigo Fuentes: Yeah, and tell me a little bit more about how you split up or organize yourselves in marketing teams. I think more and more lately I'm hearing that the sales development rep, or BDR, is reporting directly into marketing as more of a demand-gen role. How are you guys thinking about that?

Stefano Mazzalai: So we have a ... our marketing team is quite large for the size of the company. We are like 30 people total out of 120. We try to have a really tight integration with sales, so any kind of ... we obviously have a lead-generation team, which basically is highly integrated with sales. They try to coordinate solely outbound efforts with the ... on both sides, both marketing and sales. There's no direct reporting on our end, but it's definitely ... we strive for maximum integration of the sale.

Rodrigo Fuentes: You know one of the anecdotes that I keep hearing in the industry is this idea of an actual SLA, service level agreement, between marketing and sales. It's not really full of legalese, per se, but it does have some written bullet points that the sales point will sign. The marketing team will sign typically at the head or VP level. Have you seen anything like that and do you have something that substitutes or provides that kind of level of agreement or alignment between the two departments?

Stefano Mazzalai: Yeah I mean that's a good question. I think we're not at that stage yet in a sense at Instapage itself, because we are relatively small in the ... especially from our sales perspective outbound. But it's something that we are ... so there's a lot of corporation from the bottom up I would say. So everyone is really responsible for the role and trying to contribute to every role but it's something that we might need over time as we expand. It's something ... more structure that we're tying to build. The idea overall makes a lot of sense to me. It's something that needs to be coordinated in both departments.

Rodrigo Fuentes: Okay, cool. Well let's do a quick lightening round before we jump into your must-have tools. Real quick, tell me how many accounts do you assign to each account rep?

Stefano Mazzalai: Sure yeah, so we split our accounts and leads in general by geography not by company size. So we try to strive for an even distribution among different reps but obviously there's always something going on. We get a lot of leads every day. About 10% of those gets formed, getting to our sales team, our sales pipeline. So we try to harmonize those between different sales reps.

Rodrigo Fuentes: And between pipeline revenue, tracking versus marketing-qualified lead tracking, what do you prefer?

Stefano Mazzalai: Well definitely pipeline revenue is most important for us. MQLs obviously depends on the number of sales-accepted leads that we have so on the overall sales team composition ... so yeah we mainly track revenue as our primary goal.

Rodrigo Fuentes: And are you using closed loop attribution to do that today?

Stefano Mazzalai: Yeah so we set up tracking for all the different stages between Autopilot and Salesforce. Basically we are able to tell exactly where each lead is coming from, from the first point where they enter, if it was an inbound lead, they touch our website and how they got transferred to basically sales.

Rodrigo Fuentes: Excellent. So I know we got a lot of tools that we've been talking about here in our conversation so far. We've mentioned Heap, Salesforce, Autopilot, Segment, so why don't we dive into some of these. Can you give me a breakdown? What would you say are your must-have tools in your technology stack of the ones we've been talking about so far?

Stefano Mazzalai: Definitely, I mean we are really fans here of Segment and Google Tag Manager, which they combined together to basically [fire-tracking 00:08:28] all our pages and data sources. As well as we are big fans of Autopilot for marketing automation. And as well, Heap for analytics. I'll dive into these tools momentarily.

Rodrigo Fuentes: Alright, let's go with the first tool, what are you going to show us first?

Stefano Mazzalai: So Segment is basically our main data hub that we use here at Instapage and basically tells us how to track data from a variety of sources including our app and website of course. And then send it to a bunch of destinations, which is basically ... one we have in terms of where we analyze the data, where some of ... any tool, any external tool we use for a specific purpose. Some of these destinations can also send the data back to Segment so it's kind of a two-way integration. The cool thing about this is basically it allows us to try out a lot of different tools without much effort. The code that we have to install is already the same. Basically fire up a lot of this tracking really fast. We usually inject via Google Tag Manager. For example, to give you an example, on the front end for a page like this, which is one of our landing pages, we can just fire Tag Manager on this, basically we can easily see ... basically we can add the code on the front end that we can get Tag Manager and basically have data on the ... tracking data on Segment.

Rodrigo Fuentes: Just so I can recap and make sure I understand what you are saying here. Basically you are using Segment as this bridge between a lot of different sources there on the left and I can see you kind of hover over a job description there. And then you use that to identify the destinations, where do you want to send the data that's being collected by JavaScript. For example here, you are sending it over to a Redshift database. You are sending it to Heap and various other tools that you're using. You mentioned that you can fire up a tool real quickly, and what I understand that to mean is that these tools connect to Segment and they're basically turn-key integrations that you "flip a switch," and you start sending them data right away without having to ask you engineers to add JavaScript tags, or elements and events. Did I understand you correctly?

Stefano Mazzalai: That is correct. I mean at least on the front end side we don't need any kind of engineering development work. On the back end, obviously we need to define some of these events, such as firing from our database. So in that sense, we some engineering work. In this sense it's also important to define which of these events make the most sense for your business. So define the tracking plan ahead of time. Segment has some great resources, basically where you can find pre-made tracking plans which allow suggestions from the team. But obviously depending on your business model, you have to define what business metrics are most important to you and work with your team to get them implemented. This typically takes at least a couple of months of implementation time to get it right or just to integrate. Just to make sure you collect everything.

Rodrigo Fuentes: Great, and I understand Segment is great for collecting the data and sending it to a destination. Does it do something else in terms of helping you visualize the information or is there something else beyond what we are seeing on this page here?

Stefano Mazzalai: So the cool thing about Segment is, about one and a half years ago, they intRodrigouced this concept of Segment Sources. Basically on top of your own application or website, they allow you to get data from a variety of third party sources that you are using. For example, if you are using Google AdWords, you can push a lot of their data to any destination of your choice. Most likely it's going to be a data warehouse. Internally we use [Ratchet and Cosgress 00:12:48] where we basically collect the data and we are able to then slice and dice how we want to. And basically create dashboards and visualization on top of that using a tool like [inaudible 00:13:00]. That's a pretty cool feature that allows you to basically like turn on a lot of ... collect a lot of data without necessarily having to go through the Segment tracking.

Rodrigo Fuentes: Tell me what would you do if Segment did not exist? How much would your world suck?

Stefano Mazzalai: That would be ... when it came out it was a great relief for everyone. In that sense, we would have a lot of data available right away without having to wait for engineering. For us, it was pretty amazing.

Rodrigo Fuentes: So just to interpret that for some people that might be watching, you're maybe stuck and trying to implement a project. You want to get engineering's attention on something and it's languishing. I think what I'm learning from Stefano here is that Segment can help you get live and actually implement some of the projects that you have on your plate. Is that about right Stefano?

Stefano Mazzalai: Correct. Yeah, yeah. It basically allows you to get data from third party applications that they're already tracking from different sources and basically get it immediately available for visualization and data analysis, yes.

Rodrigo Fuentes: Awesome, well let's go to the next tool. I think you had mentioned a few others. What else do you want to show us today?

Stefano Mazzalai: Totally. Yeah so, Autopilot is a ... we're a big fan of Autopilot itself. It's our main marketing automation tool. And the cool part bout that is we can ingest data from Segment so we can basically segment people by using behavioral scores. So like any kind of action they did on our website or on the app is a tracking segment. And also pretty seamless integration with Salesforce, which basically allows us to score and sync all our leads and contacts for the sales team. So in terms of UI, it's I think compared to other systems, it's a more modern system compared to others in this space. We have a unified dashboard. One of the main appealing points is the visual engine that stands behind building journey and campaign. So every campaign is organized as a journey basically, and you can spin off when you're then depending on your needs. For example, for our onboarding ... free trial onboarding experience for inbound leads, we can easily define multi-channel marketing for them. Basically cross emails in applications. Even SMS or direct mail.
Plain built channels by basically dragging and dropping shapes into this board. It's a pretty interesting concept and it's more of a ... basically helps you visualize your customer journey directly without using a lot of drop-down menus. They can sometimes be overwhelming.

Rodrigo Fuentes: I'm seeing what looks like possibly a hundred little tiles on the little map on the bottom right. I'm curious, you're a power user, you got some very sophisticated campaigns in here. For the person who is maybe mid-level or just starting out, what would you say is the killer ability of creating a journey like this?

Stefano Mazzalai: Yeah, I mean it's definitely ... the simplicity of use comes to mind. It doesn't like ... being able to spin off the tool itself, we fire this through Google Tag Manager as well. You just need to ... and if you already have a Segment implementation in place, even better. It doesn't have to be. It's very easy to set up. It basically allows everyone to set up an initial drip campaign or marketing flow very quickly and easily. And also in terms of if you need to set up an email, Autopilot provides a series of templates, which are already embedded in the email itself. So it's a pretty cool option overall.

Rodrigo Fuentes: By the way, I keep seeing these different blocks that obviously mean different things. You've got some pink ones that say, "Headsup Messaging." So I'm very curious how do you leverage those and what are they?

Stefano Mazzalai: Headsup is another cool component that Autopilot does. It basically is an in-app message that you can customize. An in-app or website message that you can customize as you will. And the advantage is it has a pretty solid response rate compare to emails for example. If you carriage people via this channel, I think it is definitely going to provide a better UI. The cool thing is you can coordinate between email and Headsup messages very quickly and easily. And customize them based on any kind of behavior that your customers are doing in the app. For example, we define ahead of time our activations steps for doing our onboarding. So in our case here, we are just reaching out to some of our customers, or in this case, Evan created a page. Hasn't done anything since signing up. And so basically help him then with the tutorials and case studies in this case. Basically learn how to start off, create a case and basically using our tools in the most efficient way.

Rodrigo Fuentes: Yeah I see that little preview there. I'm curious, people these days are using a kind of best of breed type approach to the tools they use. So I've seen other people implement Drift, Intercom, etc. for that bottom right messaging. How do you deal with multiple tools trying to occupy that same mind space on a webpage. Are you using any of those other tools? Are you using Headsup only? How do you manage that potential conflict?

Stefano Mazzalai: Yeah so, we do have UX research team that deals a lot with some of these issues as well. So basically we work with them to make sure our marketing teams and all the different tools are harmonized and we're not basically [spending 00:19:16] people in any ways, because our goal is to be helpful. And basically be able to provide quality content to people who want to use our tools for the business. There are a lot of point of views that we have to kind of include in our analysis, so some of the real time chats are useful depending on your support availability bandwidth. I've seen some of the bots that are coming out lately. They are very promising as well. We are also looking to use some of those more for sales qualification point of view, but for when it's about to use tutorials. Basically, try to help people to learn the pRodrigouct from the one on one, these tools have been proven pretty valuable.

Rodrigo Fuentes: Well I'm actually a very happy Autopilot customer, so I can nerd-out for hours with you I think on the journey building and whatnot, but one area I'm curious about in particular for someone who has such a sophisticated journey down there, are you using their SMS features and lob integration to send direct mail to customers?

Stefano Mazzalai: Yeah that's a good question. We use their SMS feature a few times, especially for some events we organize or high-importance touch points I would say. Obviously it's a feature that we cannot abuse. First you need to have the data. Secondly, it's something that needs to be really urgent. So we're being really conservative in our approach. So [Farba 00:21:28] we're planning to use more for sure. And also direct mail, this is something we use for some of our high value customers like some ... an extra touch point we use as part of a campaign. That was pretty cool. It allows you to reach out to them very easily within the app. So it was-

Rodrigo Fuentes: So a similar question about Segment, if I had to take Autopilot away from you, what would you do? What would you be using?

Stefano Mazzalai: Yeah, it's a good question. So I mean it's hard depending on where your company's ... it really depends on where you are at in terms of the company and what stage of growth you are basically. Some of the tools are more focused on SMBs, others are more like Enterprise. It's hard to obviously ... there are some tools which are very focused on Enterprise and [Merkt 00:22:27] or [OpsFont 00:22:29]. Eloqua or like [OpsFont 00:22:32] Enterprise. SO some of them might be more suitable for certain types of customers. I think Autopilot right now is able to position itself in between. It can do things as complex as [Merket 00:22:45] or Eloqua, and at the same time be still easy to use for your SMBs or less-enterprise type of customers. But it depends where you're at in your business model.

Rodrigo Fuentes: Tell me about ... no software is perfect. Every software has trade-offs, pros and cons. What would you say is a weakness of Autopilot's offering today?

Stefano Mazzalai: Okay, so in terms of weaknesses I think Autopilot ... their email editor could be improved. In a sense, it's great to start off and import your HTML's. But to make it more scalable, maybe adding more variations of the same email quickly. That could possibly be improved, but recently, they released a new editor as well, which seems very promising. So they seem to making steps, so ...

Rodrigo Fuentes: Excellent. Well, why don't we move on to another tool you are using. What other goodies do you have in your bag?

Stefano Mazzalai: Totally, yeah. So I mean when it comes to analyze some of your campaign results from Autopilot or a variety of sources, one of ... if you are only using Autopilot, there is a tool called Insight, which allows you to basically go in-depth into each one of your campaigns and see metrics like open rate. And as well like how some of these people convert into ... it's taking a bit to load, but basically how well they are basically moving on to the next stage of the final. One another very example possibility is to export that data into an analytics tool, like Heap for example. So Autopilot and Heap have a direct integration and basically send a fire hose of data from Autopilot to Heap and then slice and dice it from there. So here we have built a series of dashboards that allows you to basically monitor the status of each campaign, In as well as combine this data, not only with Segment data, but data from other sources. For example a Stripe or a MailChimp or even AdWords, which is coming up in the next couple weeks. So it's pretty exciting. We can basically see for each of the emails we send, which one is being opened most or clicked. And so forth

Rodrigo Fuentes: So let's just do a quick scenario. Let's say I'm the CEO of Instapage and you're presenting to me your quarterly results, what are you showing me on this page? There's a lot of beautiful colors, but what should I focus on? How are you gonna show me that you are kicking butt?

Stefano Mazzalai: Yeah so basically for each campaign, we create a specific dashboard in Heap and basically where we can see how many ... well we mainly use emails or in-app messages. How many of these were sent by the persona? How many were opened or clicked, depending on the channel? And how many of these segments ... maybe people who opened them, or clicked, how many of these then subscribed or retained. It's a useful tool to show your CEO or your VP of marketing how your campaigns are performing. And just basically being able to combine these as well with other data so you can be like a multi-touch distribution model to show exactly how each campaign was contributing to them.

Rodrigo Fuentes: Excellent. Is there any more you'd like to show us here inside of Heap? Earlier you talked about Heap Sequel, what else can you show us inside of Heap?

Stefano Mazzalai: Yeah so Heap Sequel, it comes along as part of the Heap package. It's basically a way to send all the events and properties that we have defined in Heap to our warehouse. The cool thing about that, so it allows you to cut down on some of the engineering work. So you don't have to tell your engineers you have to create this event, or you have to create this user property on the front end. So basically, we have our pRodrigouct managers and markets go into the UI directly here and basically create a new event from scratch by just for example defining a CSS selector on a page or app. Basically you just need little bit of html ability to read those languages and then you are fine. It's very easy to set up any sort of new event tracking without involving engineering.

Rodrigo Fuentes: Have you tried other solutions besides Heap to solve similar problems for you?

Stefano Mazzalai: Yeah we used to have different analytics tools. We used to have Mixpanel in the past and now we also have an auto tracking feature too. But for us the implementation with Segment was a bit more difficult. I think they use some special alias along with segment. Which was kind of like ... Yeah basically we were using Mixpanel before. It was a great tool. It still is. The only problem is it wasn't ... the integration with our Segment implementation wasn't great. We were using some alias events, which needed to be added each time, making things more complicated. Overall, Heap was just easier to plug in.

Rodrigo Fuentes: Excellent. Well what other tools do you have in store for us today?

Stefano Mazzalai: Totally, so yeah one cool thing that we use as well is MadKudu, which is like a lead scoring predictive tool that we use to basically qualify leads in Autopilot and send to Salesforce. So the cool thing is for every lead that we send to Salesforce, our sales team basically can see enriched data from there. See how well ... like a lead score and how well they fit in terms of graphics and behavior. So they got all this pipeline of like very enriched data within Salesforce itself. It's very useful for them to get a sense of how likely is someone to become a customer. We tried a few lead scoring solutions before. We started off from scratch doing our own lead scoring based on behavior and graphics. But MadKudu showed us some real valuable just also by kind of operationalizing all the data just from Segment. Being able to return some ... send back some data to Segment and Salesforce.

Rodrigo Fuentes: Are you using that information to triage the incoming leads that you're getting. Earlier you were talking about a thousand leads a day, I think. Is that a primary value of something like MadKudu?

Stefano Mazzalai: Yeah, so that plays a huge part in our lead routing. Yes. But at the same time we collected from different sources. It could be from our website, it could be from our app. They also have some very interesting tools to collect information from forms that are active. An example, one of our landing pages here, we can basically show a specific message. A leads score out in real time. For example, if someone inputs a specific high value email, then basically we are able to show them a specific message that they want to see and enterprise for an example. Let me try an example here. We can show this solution only if this email has been ... has basically scored out in our scoring algorithm.

Rodrigo Fuentes: And what are you using to actually display that message above the button Get E-Book. Is that MadKudu tech or are you dynamically injecting that text with JavaScript that calls MadKudu's score?

Stefano Mazzalai: That is dynamic. JavaScript that's calling the MadKudu's scores. So you need to install some JavaScript from MadKudu in the page to begin with, and then yeah, it returns this information. And you can manage all of this within MadKudu itself. They have a UI where you can basically set up these forms.

Rodrigo Fuentes: Aside from the sort of cool factor, what value have you seen from optionally offering an enterprise solution, yes-no radio button here?

Stefano Mazzalai: You can basically guard some of the intent of this enterprise, potential customer. We have seen much higher conversion rates for people who have expressed intent when downloading an asset like an e-book or just on sign-up itself. So that has been very valuable to us in general. It's something that has proven to make our sales team pretty happy.

Rodrigo Fuentes: Excellent Stefano, thank you so much for your time today. It's been a pleasure reviewing all these pRodrigoucts with you. Just a brief recap, we covered, Segment, Autopilot, Heap and MadKudu, and all the different ways in which you are leveraging these tools to drive more marketing efficiency and better sales results. I love to see ... do you have any parting thoughts for us today?

Stefano Mazzalai: No, thanks for Rodrigo for having me and congratulations on this channel. I think it's very valuable for any Ops professional to just come here and learn about best practices from each other and it's a great tool. We're very thankful. Thanks again.